Posts by Doug Mason

20

Paul did not belittle women

by Doug Mason in

i note the recent post that quoted 1 timothy 2:11-12 and colossians 1:23 which place women at a level that is lower to men.

the poster accused paul of this mysoginy, but that is not correct.. 1 timothy, 2 timothy, titus, colossians, ephesians and hebrews were written after paul's death.. paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles.

he wrote that in god's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in god's sight.. doug.

Doug Mason

Take care when you say "the Bible is inspired". It might only represent what you wish for or what you believe God "should have" done.

It is illogical to use any words from within the texts to attempt to show that the Bible is "inspired", That is pure circular reasoning.

Further, the "Bible" did not exist until the 4th century at the earliest. Even then the decision was not and is not unanimously agreed on. Only the Catholic Church ever voted on the Canon (list of books), which it did in the 15th century. Protestants rely on Tradition.

The contents too are disagreed on. Take for example the text of the NT, where arguments abound on whether the Textus Receptus or Westcott-Hort should be accepted (throw in Aland's Nestle text).

The canons (list of books) of the Catholic, Protestant and Orthodox churches differ - and there are other canons in use today. The Canons of the Jewish Bible (Tanakh) differs from the Catholic and Protestant versions. Add to that the differences in the texts between the Masoretic Text (MT) and the various iterations of the LXX plus that of the Dead Sea Scrolls.

I have listed above the writings that are widely accepted as not being written by Paul. The letters to the Corinthians are readily accepted as genuinely by him. 2 Corinthians (at least) is an edited compilation of several letters.

Doug

20

Paul did not belittle women

by Doug Mason in

i note the recent post that quoted 1 timothy 2:11-12 and colossians 1:23 which place women at a level that is lower to men.

the poster accused paul of this mysoginy, but that is not correct.. 1 timothy, 2 timothy, titus, colossians, ephesians and hebrews were written after paul's death.. paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles.

he wrote that in god's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in god's sight.. doug.

Doug Mason

Certainly there were and are mysoginists in religion. I am pointing out that Paul must not be blamed for something he was not responsible for.

These writings I listed were written decades after Paul's death. He died in 64 CE and these were written about 20 to 30 years later, when the movement started to address formal issues.

I would also be cautious about claiming definitely what Jesus actually did say and did not say. Again this is a subject mired in controversy. The earliest Gospel -- Mark -- was written a few years after Paul's death, Matthew another decade later along with John, while the present form of Luke is from the early 2nd century.

This means that not one of the Gospel writers either saw or heard Jesus. They worked from Tradition and the memory of others - and influenced by Paul. I take the position that each Gospel represents what that particular community believed.

All of these words, including Paul's, are the opinions of each separate group that claimed allegiance to Jesus (and I include the Gospel of Thomas among them).

Late in the 2nd century they started to use the term "Christian".

I am asked who wrote those pseudo-Paul writings. I do not know. Neither do I know who wrote 2 Peter, which was written about 100 years after his death. I wonder if we know anything about what Peter thought and taught. (Acts is recognised as being a religious novel, written for contemporary religio-political purposes.)

Doug

20

Paul did not belittle women

by Doug Mason in

i note the recent post that quoted 1 timothy 2:11-12 and colossians 1:23 which place women at a level that is lower to men.

the poster accused paul of this mysoginy, but that is not correct.. 1 timothy, 2 timothy, titus, colossians, ephesians and hebrews were written after paul's death.. paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles.

he wrote that in god's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in god's sight.. doug.

Doug Mason

I note the recent post that quoted 1 Timothy 2:11-12 and Colossians 1:23 which place women at a level that is lower to men. The poster accused Paul of this mysoginy, but that is not correct.

1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Colossians, Ephesians and Hebrews were written after Paul's death.

Paul was not a mysoginist; he made full use of women in leadership roles. He wrote that in God's sight there is neither male nor female, for all are one in God's sight.

Doug

6

Daniel in the den of lions a happy story, not.

by James Mixon in

we all know the story of daniel in the lions den.

king darius and daniel best of friends, so.

what happen.

Doug Mason

The Book of Daniel as we have it today was assembled in the 2nd century BCE, some 400 years after the time of Nebuchadnezzar. Using parables, the writers were telling Jews who were being presecuted by Antiochus Epiphanes that Yahweh would look after them and protect them from the lions (Antiochus).

They used symbolic messaging to strengthen one another without raising the suspicions of their oppressors.

Being so far removed from the period they were writing about, they made many historical mistakes, but of course some were deliberate, such as transferring Nabonidus' 10-year madness and giving that experience to Nebuchadnezzar.

(Some parts of Daniel are from Greek while other parts are from the Aramaic.)

Doug

13

“The Jesus-followers’ first 200 years”

by Doug Mason in

the archaeologist digs and then sifts through remnants from the past, assembling the discoveries into patterns so that stories of the past may be brought back to life.. with almost 850 direct quotations from 50 books, my study sifts remnants from the first 200 years of christianity and sorts them into patterns that may help others to assemble a vessel that can hold ideas, or to form a skeleton where muscle and flesh, heart and mind, may be applied.

a comprehensive contents listing is provided at the rear of this study.. my study, “the jesus-followers’ first 200 years” is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_jesus-followers__first_200_years.pdf .

Doug Mason

Shepherdless,

Yes there are many zany things in Thomas, as there are - in our eyes - in all of the writings from those times. But this is exactly what those Jesus-followers believed and how they thought. Reading their material gives us an insight into the melee of thoughts that were flying around, thicker than flakes in a snow storm.

I suggest that familiarity with the canonised texts (Old Testament and New) has blunted our sensitivities - or we tend to make excuses or rationalizations.

BTW, the Watchtower says that all the resurrected heavenly class of 144,000 are not female. All will be changed. I think that's zany, but that's their reality.

"These all must receive a change of nature at their resurrection, being made partakers together of 'divine nature,' in which state none will be women, for there is no female sex among spirit creatures, sex being God's means for reproduction of earthly creatures." (Insight on the Scriptures, Vol 2, page 1196)

Doug

13

“The Jesus-followers’ first 200 years”

by Doug Mason in

the archaeologist digs and then sifts through remnants from the past, assembling the discoveries into patterns so that stories of the past may be brought back to life.. with almost 850 direct quotations from 50 books, my study sifts remnants from the first 200 years of christianity and sorts them into patterns that may help others to assemble a vessel that can hold ideas, or to form a skeleton where muscle and flesh, heart and mind, may be applied.

a comprehensive contents listing is provided at the rear of this study.. my study, “the jesus-followers’ first 200 years” is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_jesus-followers__first_200_years.pdf .

Doug Mason

Thank you for your very kind words. I am embarrassed.

Doug

13

“The Jesus-followers’ first 200 years”

by Doug Mason in

the archaeologist digs and then sifts through remnants from the past, assembling the discoveries into patterns so that stories of the past may be brought back to life.. with almost 850 direct quotations from 50 books, my study sifts remnants from the first 200 years of christianity and sorts them into patterns that may help others to assemble a vessel that can hold ideas, or to form a skeleton where muscle and flesh, heart and mind, may be applied.

a comprehensive contents listing is provided at the rear of this study.. my study, “the jesus-followers’ first 200 years” is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_jesus-followers__first_200_years.pdf .

Doug Mason

When I set out on this Study, I had no idea that it would turn out like this. When I started, I told a friend that I wanted to discover the “Real Paul”. I wanted to remove the veneers, the assumptions, to remove his clothes and leave him naked. I wanted to know his mind. So my mental working title was “Nude Paul”. As with every Study, this one took me by the hand into places I had never thought about, creating thoughts I had never considered. In the process, I removed many veneers, many clothes, exposing a nudist colony.

This Study has affected me more than any other I have prepared. The others are intellectual expositions; this one is personal. I am shocked at what I have produced. Its influence on me is shown by the fact that I do not discuss my other Studies in this way. (For those in Australia, I get my copy printed double sided and coil bound at Officeworks.)

It has shown me that there is so much more that I need to pursue. It is only a stepping stone. For example, I now see that the Gospel of Thomas needs to be explored, especially the people who produced it. It is likely as old as the earliest canonised Gospels, produced by another sect. Indeed the spectrum of the non-canonised documents should be explored. But there are only so many years that remain, so I need to be judicious in considering what to explore. Right now, I am thinking of the influence of Bishop Anselm.

Only now, after arriving at this picture of the early followers of Jesus, am I able to appreciate the book: “Blaming Jesus for Jehovah: Rethinking the Righteousness of Christianity” by Robert Price.

I hope that those of you who are expert in this era can add to the story - and provide corrections.

Doug

13

“The Jesus-followers’ first 200 years”

by Doug Mason in

the archaeologist digs and then sifts through remnants from the past, assembling the discoveries into patterns so that stories of the past may be brought back to life.. with almost 850 direct quotations from 50 books, my study sifts remnants from the first 200 years of christianity and sorts them into patterns that may help others to assemble a vessel that can hold ideas, or to form a skeleton where muscle and flesh, heart and mind, may be applied.

a comprehensive contents listing is provided at the rear of this study.. my study, “the jesus-followers’ first 200 years” is available at:.

http://www.jwstudies.com/the_jesus-followers__first_200_years.pdf .

Doug Mason

The archaeologist digs and then sifts through remnants from the past, assembling the discoveries into patterns so that stories of the past may be brought back to life.

With almost 850 direct quotations from 50 books, my Study sifts remnants from the first 200 years of Christianity and sorts them into patterns that may help others to assemble a vessel that can hold ideas, or to form a skeleton where muscle and flesh, heart and mind, may be applied. A comprehensive Contents listing is provided at the rear of this Study.

My Study, “The Jesus-followers’ first 200 years” is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/The_Jesus-followers__First_200_years.pdf

Doug

28

The question no JW can answer without resorting to babbling

by Crabby in

let me ask you only one question.

first i need to clarify a few things.

in the new world translation, john 1:1 reads: “in [the] beginning the word was, and the word was with god, and the word was a god.” then in isaiah 9:6 (nwt) we read: “for there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder.

Doug Mason

OneGenTwoGroups,

It would be interesting to survey Bible scholars (and I do not mean fundamentalists) to see how many hold to the Trinitarian formula.

It is one thing to expose the Trinity doctrine but quite another to explain and defend the Watchtower's ideas. For me, the Watchtower's explanation is fraught with as many difficulties as what the Trinity faces.

Have you tabulated the contradictory statements in the John Gospel? or in Paul?

Doug

28

The question no JW can answer without resorting to babbling

by Crabby in

let me ask you only one question.

first i need to clarify a few things.

in the new world translation, john 1:1 reads: “in [the] beginning the word was, and the word was with god, and the word was a god.” then in isaiah 9:6 (nwt) we read: “for there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder.

Doug Mason

Hi Tenacious,

I need to make a correction here, as it was the writer of Peter who said people were misusing Paul. I Timothy was written when the Jesus-followers were moving from their first blush of emotional enthusiasm to the consideration of church structure and hierarchy. As I said, we are looking at the first part of the second century.

Of the 13 writings attributed to Paul, the general consensus held by the majority of scholars is that 7 were genuinely written by Paul. In chronological order: 1 Thessalonians, Galatians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Philemon, Philippians and Romans. Further, some of these epistles are collections of letters; some scholars identify 4 letters in 2 Corinthians, others see 6 letters.

The others attributed to Paul, such as Colossians, Ephesians, and so on were written well after his death.

His genuine writings are our earliest written record. Mark's Gospel was the earliest record about Jesus' life and preaching, and it was written anonymously about 70 CE, some 40 years after Jesus' death. Matthew's Gospel (also anonymous) followed some 15 years later.

All the best with you research. You will find it exciting and challenging.

Doug